Say what? Socratic interviews?
I've just passed 1,000 PIP interviews--that's some kind of milestone, right?
A PIP is a Previously Important Person, someone who once had a major award given to them, or they held a high-profile job, or they did something remarkable enough to be noticed -- ahem, NOTICED -- as in the Andy Warhol observation that nearly everyone has their "fifteen minutes of fame".
When Ray Price and I first conceived of writing a Hewlett-Packard anthology, we wound up conducting about 120 full interviews, and another 400 episodic discussions in order to learn more about events and issues around the company of which we knew next to nothing. I had the privilege of knowing nearly all of these interviewees prior to their interviews, having worked at HP for nearly thirty years. So, in a sense, these were discussions between colleagues rather than formal interviews conducted by historians.
Those HP interviews, done between 2003 and 2008, were recorded and the files eventually stored at the volunteer HP Computer Museum in Australia (created by Jon Johnston). After Johnston's untimely death in a mountaineering accident, the collection was ultimately sold to the HP CompanyArchives (HPCA), managed by Heritage Works, Inc. in Atlanta, GA. I am not sure what has happened to 'our interviews.'
For many years as well, I had been a Trustee for the Computer History Museum (nee Boston, now in Mountain View, CA), serving from 1991 through 2020. CHM had been dilatory about oral interviews, doing a mere 43 in its first 30 years of existence through 2011. When Jim Pelkey offered a trove of audio tapes with 81 interviews of networking pioneers from the 1960-1980 era to CHM in 2012, their initial response was that "we don't do oral interviews" for all the good and sufficient reasons that all reputable historians of the time espoused.
Those reasons are manifold:
1. Individual recollections are untrustworthy, either self-aggrandizing or denigrating others' contributions, not to mention short on details due to the passage of time. As one wag put it, "my mother could remember things that never even happened."
2. No one can possibly understand the context of the situation, whatever it might be. That is the job of the true historian, not one of many participants.
3. Only trained historians are qualified to do these kinds of interviews, and there are too few of them.
4. Decent (i.e. 'correct') interviews are expensive, requiring high-quality studio recording, heavy editing, and semi-infinite fact-checking.
Well, while those arguments have considerable validity, they do not sufficiently value what might be gleaned from 'amateur interviews.' Which is what I have spent another decade learning how to do.
I, with others, was able to change the stance for CHM. They have now done more than 1,600 video interviews in the past 12 years, going up by 100x the rate of ascension for the first 30 years. This has included more than 900 'amateur' interviews, along with 700 conducted by 'proper computer historians.'
Turns out, that two simple techniques help the veracity factor a lot: 1. interviewing multiple individuals about any set of important events to get multiple perspectives, and 2. sometimes putting those folk into a 'group' for recollection purposes (where many times someone will say, somewhat with chagrin, 'ah, yes, George, I do recall now that you were the one who did . . .').
But back to the opening statement about Socratic interviewing--this isn't exactly how 'formal' interviews are done, but it is my approach. Begin with something like "How did you become who you are?" rather than tell me about "the high-tech whiz-bang for which you're associated." Ask open-ended questions, with undirected goals, to discover passions and motivations more than 'the facts' of what they did. Why the quest in the first place, and what challenges rather than what successes resulted. The highest complements that I get are of the form, "I didn't expect this kind of interview. This was really fun, and it really made me think about things."
The net result is that I have persisted, and indeed tuned, how to do these interviews, and I believe that it provides an additional set of insights rarely collected in more traditional interviewing methodologies. Not that it replaces them, but rather that it augments them.
Careful readers might recall that I sang this song once before, in the Blog Post on February 13, 2024, entitled "It's WHO and WHY, not just WHAT and HOW". But now I know to call it "Socratic".
I now have done perhaps forty interviews for CHM, ditto for the Novim Group for their Science Communication Awards, a couple of hundred for the Cisco Foundation (mostly recollections of many early employees), and a couple hundred for the Association of Computing Machinery. Other groups have included pioneers in ancillary fields, including Computer Education and Computer Law pioneers, not to mention other unrelated arenas like horticulture and United States history where I have considerable background as well.
And a recent count is sort of like that Hindu cultural saying about 1,000 moons: The Sahasra Purna Chandrodayam ((सहस्र पूर्ण चंद्रोदयम) refers to a celebration marking the 1,000th full moon experienced by an individual, typically around their 81st birthday (yes, I qualify now for that). This milestone is significant, symbolizing a long and blessed life, and a time to seek blessings for continued well-being and spiritual liberation.
And of late, kind of in a spiritual liberation about these interviews, I have reflected on what has changed in terms of collecting these 'first-person' stories, and what hasn't yet happened. What is good is that universities and professional societies have 'caught on' and the net result is that there are more than 10,000 decent video 'first-person' high-tech stories collected in about a dozen archives--a fantastic collection that has grown ten-fold in a decade.
And, for the most part, they have had decent transcripts produced, with AI-generated text helping considerably. So, from a text-based search capability, we could do plenty. But as of yet, these collections are stored individually, so a cross-transcript sort is not yet practical.
The consequence is sad, in terms of nearly all of these transcripts remain unread, unused, and essentially unavailable. And that, in part, has been my more recent focus. How can we make use of this asset?
The next few blogs will describe thoughts along this vein. Stay tuned.